Spanking in Anger isn’t the Problem
Posted by waterlilly · 38 Comments
All Christian parenting authors that I’m aware of say “never spank in anger.” They seem to believe that it is only physical discipline performed in anger that results in abuse. That children who are unintentionally murdered by their parents due to physical punishments were murdered because the parent was angry and was unable to see or care about the damage being done.
I believe this is a fallacy and a smokescreen.
Whenever a child dies, like Lydia Schatz and Sean Paddock, there is lots of internet discussion about these issues. And invariably the people who believe spanking to be Biblically commanded pull out the “never spank in anger” clause and use it as a shield to block themselves from the notion that they could ever find themselves in this situation. They use this clause to prove that the parenting “experts” who espouse these methods could never be culpable in these situations. After all, if a parent is using the rod “correctly” and “never spanking in anger” then they believe there is no danger.
I’d like to propose that we have NO idea the state of mind of the parents who were punishing Lydia or Sean or countless other children who are abused every day with these methods. NO idea. We’d like to believe that they are monsters because this makes us feel safe from finding ourselves in that situation. But I don’t think that we have information that supports that they are all monsters. Some are, sure. You can give me countless examples of abusive parents who perform degrading and unspeakable acts upon their children, but as of today I have seen no information that indicates the Schatz family performed any acts outside of “normal” To Train Up a Child -style punishments.
Several news articles I’ve read about the Schatz case indicate that the plumbing-supply-line whippings went on for several hours. To me, this would indicate that it is more likely that the parents were calm rather than angry. I’ve been angry with my children. I will even confess to being in a rage with them, as much as I’m ashamed to admit that. But that anger burns hot and FAST. The anger is not sustained for hours and hours. If you are brave enough to do it, imagine yourself with a piece of plumbing supply line in your hand and your child stretched out on a bed ready for a whipping. Even in your angriest moment, would the whipping last more than a few minutes? Wouldn’t your rage burn out? Even if you are heartless, wouldn’t you stop because you grew tired? Anger and rage are exhausting, and they don’t last long. A truly selfish, heartless person would lose interest and want to be doing something else like watching t.v. or working on a hobby. They would stop the whipping episode out of disinterest.
I want to suggest that only two types of people will beat their children for hours. The first type are sadists who enjoy hurting others. They get a thrill and a pleasure in inflicting pain. The second type are parents who desperately care for their children and their eternal salvation. They believe that this world is but fleeting, and that their children’s eternal salvation is the most important parenting goal.
And you know what? There are lots of us in that camp. Those of us who know Christ want to live eternally with him and with our children and loved ones. We do not want our children to be eternally damned. We do what we believe to be right in raising our children to know Christ and his offer of salvation.
Some of us believe that – as much as we would like to – we have no ultimate control over whether our children choose Christ. We must be faithful and model Christ-like behavior to our children. We must be faithful and guide them in the ways they should go (discipline). We must be faithful talking about God and his ways and laws in our daily lives. We must do all these things, and then leave the results in God’s hands.
Others of us believe that parenting “correctly” can all but guarantee that our children will become Christians. These parents desperately love their children, and will therefore go to almost any length to make sure their parenting is “correct.” Some of these parents find authors and “experts” who also believe that parenting is an equation – do A and B and your result will be C. The “experts” ideas resonate with them, and these parents begin to diligently apply A and B because they desire the promised C for their children.
Sometimes A and B are not life-threatening concepts. Sometimes A and B are things like, “Never, ever, ever allow your child to decide what’s for dinner. You are the boss.” Sometimes A and B are issues that can be life-threatening in some, or all, situations. Recent parenting advice like “Maintain four hour intervals between breastfeeding sessions” can sometimes be life threatening. This advice results in Failure to Thrive in some mother/infant pairs. Other instances of A and B are found in punishment advice available in many books written by “Christian experts” like Fugate, Pearl, et al. Michael Pearl’s insistence on a child’s complete surrender before punishment is stopped can lead to life-threatening situations. Lydia Schatz’ death is a horrific example of this.
Based on what I’ve read and what I know about parents and our desire to raise Godly children, I do not think Lydia’s parents hated her or were even trying to injure her. They wanted to parent “correctly,” and they believed that exerting total control and seeing surrender in her were the only ways to ensure that she had a chance for salvation. Unfortunately, Lydia’s early life and adoption likely played a role in how she responded to physical pain and punishment. (KatieKind gives an excellent discussion of attachment disorders in adopted children.) Her parents killed her in their desire to save her from eternal damnation. They believed Michael Pearl: that the only way to save Lydia was to exert total control over her and to see a repentant heart in her.
The problem wasn’t dispensing physical punishment while being angry, the problem was the belief that ANY parenting method can save our children from eternal damnation.
waterlilly
Well said. Thank you for bravely addressing this.
The tragedy, too, is that the parents are being spiritually abused by church leaders who are leading them to believe this sort of thing is _Biblical_. One of the readers commented on katiekind’s that the family had moved to a Pearl-method friendly church. When spiritual abuse is going on, a tell-tale sign is people isolating themselves to groups who are like-minded and who will not tell them they are wrong — producing egomaniacs who cannot be confronted.
I responded very similarly, that anger-spanking is a smokescreen, here :
http://katiekind.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/when-parenting-kills-what-can-we-do/#comment-1677
Much love,
SJA
So then please tell me what is biblical parenting? We should never discipline our kids out of anger no matter what the type of discipline, but for those who think spanking is biblical, what is. Why does God punish us with hell if we don’t follow him. Hell is more painful then a spanking. I am not sure what I agree with on this issue, but I would like to hear someone who is against spanking support their biblical reasoning for why they think spankings are wrong.
To Mel-
The bible teaches over and over again that Jesus paid the price for our sin. There is no condemnation, and we are no longer subject to the punishment for our sin. The entire book of Romans goes into great detail on this subject. How then are we to deal out punishment to our children, when we have been forgiven much? The parable of the unforgiving servant in Matt. 18 comes to mind.
Most of those who advocate spanking, do so based on 6 verses in the book of proverbs. Most of the time, they use the verses in a “prooftexting” fasion.. meaning to take a verse all by itself with no thought to contextual, biblical, and historical context. Granted, the book of proverbs is hard to gain a good contextual context in, but there is a great deal of historical and cultural depth to not only the book of Proverbs, but the whole bible.
I advocated spanking, until someone challanged me to do a word study on the actual hebrew words in those verses, and I would encourage you to do the same. Look into other uses of the word “shebet” wich is translated rod. Try to remember that hebrew is a language that speaks in word pictures a lot, and uses many symbols. Many times, people in the hebrew culture would use an item to convey an idea.
It would be easy for me to tell you what I found, but for me anyways, unless I research the issues for myself using the bible and historical fact, its unhelpfull to change my mind.
Blessings!
Jennie
Mel — Clay Clarkson’s _Heartfelt Discipline_ is an excellent resource for Christian parents who want to examine the “rod verses.” It is currently out of print, though you may be able to find a copy online. I believe it is going to be re-released this Spring/Summer.
I was not attempting to address the appropriateness of spanking. My point is that claiming that abuse will never happen as long as a spanking/beating is never done in anger is a lie. A lie that can have serious consequences. This is a lie that we all need to acknowledge and examine for ourselves.
Thanks for the info. It is most helpful in my search for what parenting looks like in the eyes of God, and not the world. I was spanked as a child and don’t have any negative feelings from the past, but that doesn’t mean it’s right.
Mel — I would also suggest reading “Biblical Parenting” by Crystal Lutton, and “Families Where Grace is in Place” by Jeff VanVonderen. You could also check out http://www.aolff.com for information on the “rod verses.”
Here is a question for all the the non-spanking parents. Is it sounds like you are saying there are no consequences for our sin since Jesus paid the price for us. What are the consequences for our children when they are being foolish? Example: You are sitting at the dinner table and your 3 year old starts to throw his food on the floor. You give him a warning not to do it and he understands that it is not a game. He defiantly throws food on the floor again. What do you do? Kids need to know that there are consequences for their foolish actions. There is a difference between childish and foolish. I don’t believe that a spanking is in order for a childish act, but a foolish defiant act, maybe. Parents that spank for every single act are foolish themselves, but what are the consequences when a child is acting out of foolishness. Isolation? Timeouts? Taking a toy away? And what truly works if you don’t use spankings? Understand that I am a new mom praying for answers on how to discipline my son the way God would discipline him. I am not trying to prove your beliefs wrong but it seems that everyone who doesn’t spank doesn’t share alternatives, they just want to tell everyone how bad spanking is.
Mel — In your example, the consequence at my house would be that the 3yo’s food would be taken away and the 3yo would have to clean up the mess. If the mess were beyond the ability of the 3yo, or if there was a meltdown fit and refusal to clean it, I would take the 3yo’s hands and “help” him clean the mess he made.
What is the lesson you are trying to teach? Probably that food isn’t for throwing… why? Because it makes a mess that has to be cleaned up, it wastes food, and perhaps even that it feels disrespectful to mommy’s cooking efforts.
These lessons can be taught by removing the food and making/helping the 3yo clean up the mess. I’ve not found that adding a “punishment” (whether that be a timeout or a spanking or taking a toy) to be helpful in teaching that lesson.
Now, I *will* confess that I sometimes want my child to PAY for their misbehavior. But every time I feel that way, when I more deeply examine my feelings… they are very angry and without mercy or grace. Very Pharisee-like, if I’m honest.
And ultimately I’ve decided that parenting as a Pharisee is not the choice I want to make.
Mel, I recommend you read Grace-Based Parenting by Tim Kimmel and Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson. Both contain Biblical exposition and practical guidelines for parenting authoritatively and without spanking.
I usually don’t normally post on many another Blogs, nevertheless I just has to say thank you… keep up the amazing work. Ok unfortunately its time to get to school.
Hello, it looks like your site is up and coming in the
I have to respectfully disagree. Anger and rage can go on for hours. I’ve seen it. I think it stems from unbalanced hormones and possibly demonic influence.
Yes, anger and rage can go on for hours. I can also attest to that.
But the point is, that deadly spankings can occur in the complete absence of rage as well. If the parenting books you have read actually TEACH you (as I have read excerpts of the Pearls books) to drag out the spanking session as long as you can, in order to increase the mental anguish to the child so that he/she is less likely to cross you again in the future, then one can and will spank for a long time without intense emotion.
What a person believes about “Biblical discipline” is critical to how they will treat their children.
As an illustration, consider than in vet school students are taught that animals in shock do not “feel”.
Pediatric surgeons were once taught that young infants could not “feel” surgeries because their brain pathways were not yet fully developed. And so these professionals ignored all the signs and symtpoms of pain that their patients were exhibiting- screaming, crying, drawing up in pain, rapid heatbeat, and every other sign of distress. Pediatric surgeons now sedate infants, and their recovery from surgery is now better than when they were left in pain. But for years no doctors questioned what they were taught in medical school, even though the evidence in front of them seemed otherwise.
Current veterinary practice is another example. They are taught in vet school that animals in shock don’t feel anything and are unaware of their surroundings. They believe this in spite of all evidence to the contrary.
I have seen it with my own eyes. My wounded dog was drawn up and screaming, and I couldn’t get the vet to give it painkillers. My wounded dog shrieked louder when the vet took it from my arms, though the vet insisted the dog was unaware of its surroundings. Yet when I took my dog back in my arms, the screaming was less frantic. And when the painkiller was finally administered right before euthanasia, my dog stopped screaming and twisting and was able to relax.
Yet that vet still refused to acknowledge what was right before his eyes. He had come to believe that he should ignore the animals and trust his professors word as the final authority.
I think that’s what happened in the Schatz’s home. I think they had accepted the Pearls word as the final authority, so much so that they hardened their hearts to their children’s cries for mercy.
The Pearls teach them to do this. They teach that children should be left with a breathless whimper at the end of discipline. I have read this in excerpts online.
They fully internalized as truth the teaching that long, methodical and repeated spankings will ultimately result in joyful Christian children who feel secure and loved. They clung to this teaching and ignored all evidence to the contrary.
To me that is no different than the vet internalizing his instructors belief that animals in shock are insensate, in spite of anything he might ever see or hear to the contrary.
What people believe affects how they live. Yes, some people rage at their children for hours. But other hit their children for hours quite methodically, taking time outs to intensify the fear, because they believe the teaching that this will ultimately result in joy and peace for that child.
I believe that’s what happened at the Schatz place, and that’s why it is so important to warn against these false teachings. Thanks, WaterLily, for your brave post.
I really value your insights on this subject, and I’d like to quote some of what you’ve written in my own blog (specifically, the part about the two kinds of people who could spank for hours.)
I want to give proper credit, but I couldn’t find an “about me” area or even a first name on your page, so I’m calling you “Water Lilly” in my draft (and of course I’ll link to you). If you would like me to credit it differently, please let me know. I’ll check back here again before I post my own.
Thank you for your heartfelt stand on this issue. Please don’t let the detractors discourage you. It IS horrific that legalism has such a foothold in the world of Christendom, but when we hold up the light as you are doing, Christ uses it to lovingly draw His own. Keep shining! You may not know until Heaven how many children you helped to spare from this nightmare.
Betsy — crediting me as “Water Lilly” is appreciated. Thank you for your kind words.
Anonymous — yes, of course anger and rage can go on for hours. And whipping a child in the midst of this kind of rage would likely be catastrophic.
However, NORMAL people and NORMAL parents do not have rage episodes that last for hours. I think it was clear that I was not attempting to address sadistic or demon-possessed parents in my original post.
This piece of writing so so very well said. I appreciate very much the thought and energy that went into it.
Ok, I have credited you as “Water Lilly” on my post. Thank you for letting me quote you. May the Lord use our small efforts to make a big difference!
Wow, when I’m actually sitting to type my thoughts, I’m amazed at how jumbled they become again. Like most folks, this tragedy has been eating at my heart and head all week (very disturbing sleep last night). We received the news through a Liberian pastor that we support and who cares for our foster daughter in Liberia and who helped us when we adopted two children (bro and sis) from the same orphanage that the Schatz children lived in. This tragedy hits us very close to home…because we have children who could have known this little girl, but because we too have waded through some tough waters by adopting older children from a war torn country. Not just a war torn country, but a country embroiled in civil war for 14 years. The US consulate told us when we were there, that Liberia was the worst country she had been sent to (she would be placed in recovering civil war countries, like Serbia and Bosnia to help facilitate US adoptions) and the children were the worst wounded in all her years of serving as consulate to these countries. We also took in a Liberian teen for a year to help her adoption not disrupt. Members of our family have been to Liberia twice and I have a daughter who would love to return and we have friends who have ministry still there. So, our perspective on the Schatz situation comes from a different angle. It just means our heart, while already torn, is torn in another area too.
I am so grieved by this. There is nothing right about it…only the promise that God can redeem good from it…whether any of us will see it may never be known. My husband and I have opposed the Pearl’s teaching for years, so we are very much aware of it. I also weep for the parents that were(are) so desperate in their search to be accepted by God that they turn to empty promises of perfection to assuage their own guilt. Oh the demons that haunt their souls. That they look to a method for assurance of their salvation rather than Christ is really the tragedy.
But I feel I must also address something else that I have consistently seen on the blogs regarding this subject. I am just a bit disturbed that it seems to always reduce into two camps of spanking vs non-spanking and each side gathering the scriptural support for their ammunition. WaterLilly’s post does an excellent job of not being this reductionist. It reminds me of my early church training of knowing exactly where I stood on pre, mid or post trib rapture. The focus not being on Christ and His redemption, but rather division among the body, His Bride, over points of doctrine, that serve no good purpose.
What are we to do? Form churches that spanking or not spanking are essential parts of doctrine? I, for one, choose to be somewhat agnostic in this area and by that I mean, I prefer to allow folks the choice of finding the parenting method that works for them and their children and in that granting respect for their choices. And let me make it perfectly clear here, do I respect Michael and Debi Pearl or their methods…ABSOLUTELY NOT. I do not respect their graceless abusive stance that ultimately destroys a parent keeping and protecting the hearts of their children. Unfortunately, what I observe…and granted it is strictly my opinion…is that the focus is on those that don’t spank vs those that do. And honestly, I see, hear, feel a lot of judgment being expressed. The slightest suggestion that a parent would swat a toddler’s hand when reaching for something harmful, automatically gets them labeled as Pearl followers and bad parents. And likewise, pro-spankers are willing to shake their head in judgement at anyone that suggests that Jesus was anything but gentle. And I feel the scales are definitely tipped towards one camp on most blogs I’ve read.
As my dear brilliant daughter so eloquently put it yesterday…”without sounding cheesy and giving the sunday school answer…anytime we choose following a method (spanking or not spanking) over choosing to seek Jesus, we are choosing idolatry.”
Folks, I implore you…follow your convictions, the best you can discern them and in honesty and faith. Allow others to do so too. A case in point would be if in reading my comments, anyone has attempted to discern on which side of the fence I am on. Don’t try…I have my own fence constructed based on 30 years of parenting.
It is imperative that a vocal stance be taken on the Pearl’s teachings…but we will be so much more effective if we don’t divide into camps and fight amongst ourselves first.
What if someone twice as tall as you, and 4 times as heavy (that’s what parents are to kids) laid you out on a bed to beat you into submission? They would go to jail. You would probably die and/or be mutilated, yet we argue semantics to determine if we can do this to a child. Someone twice my size and 4x as heavy would 18 feet tall and 600 lbs. I don’t want that person beating me into submission, so I sure as hell (or heaven) won’t do it to a 33″ tall, 35lb child (or a child of any size).
My children behaved when I spoke to them with reason and understanding. When necessary, a raised voice, or grounding worked. They are happy, respectful, generous, loving, wonderful young adults who I can look in the I. I have much resentment towards my mother who lashed, belted, coat hangered, slapped, twigged me in the name of teaching me respect. I never let my mother watch my children because I did not and do not trust her with children. My mother is a “God fearing woman”. I was a “Mom fearing” child. The cycle of abuse HAS to stop regardless of how people want to disguise it.
Hello again,
Just wanted to let you know I did a little research, and I found pretty strong reason to classify the Pearls’ “training techniques” as literal brainwashing. It’s on my blog, and I hope it helps!
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Mrs Chris says “Jesus paid the price for our sin. There is no condemnation, and we are no longer subject to the punishment for our sin”. That is true when we repent. Even for the unrepentant, God gives grace, and often withholds punishment for extended periods of time. But when there is no repentance, punishment eventually comes.
This post is so well written and addresses a very important issue. Would you please consider writing to CBS today before they interview Michael Pearl tomorrow morning. They really need to see this side of the story before Michael Pearl gets on there and blames the Schatz’s for their anger issues. Yes they were wrong BUT I really wonder if Lydia would still be here today if it wasn’t for his teaching.
If nothing else you could just copy and paste your whole post here.
Thanks.
Anyone can write to:
earlyshow@cbs.com
cc to audsvcs@cbs.com
You will be pleased to know that your post has hit a nerve over at http://www.7xsunday.net. THat is the forum run by the Pearl’s oldest daughter and her husband. Apparently some of the women there are afraid that you will inspire toughter questions against the Pearls.
Good going!
How much better if Lydia’s parents had said “well, that didn’t work, what do we do now?” the first time a “spanking” [truly "Beating"] didn’t work. How much better if instead of hitting and hitting they’d gone to their knees and prayed then gone to the internet or library and read about problems in cross-cultural adoption, behavior of traumatized, abandoned kids after adoption. How much better if they had gotten some decent counseling from a licensed social worker or psychologist, gotten themselves some medication to take the edge off the frustration [which can be VERY real for parents post-adoption life], found someone to babysit the kids occasionally and gotten away from home and talked about it all sanely. Prayer can be a great thing for the post-adoptive family, but when asked God leads you to REAL sources of help not just someone out to make a buck with a dubious method of raising robotic kids.
Hey, I think your mostly on point with this, I wouldn’t say I agree with you completely , but its not really that much of a issue.
Thank for this article. Spankings are always getting a bad rep. I believe when done as outlined in the bible, it can accomplish much.
There are few blog that see the nescessity in not sparing the rod. Yolanda Ro is among the few blogs.
http://photoz.hostzi.com/1_17_Spankings-Cause-Agression-Here-we-go-again-.html
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You have written this so beautifully and so concisely. I think it addresses an incredibly important issue and you have done it brilliantly and with so much compassion.
I think so much parenting is done in fear of what will happen if we don’t do A and B as well, it is not just about getting the result C. Authors like the Pearls thrive on playing on the fears of parents. They provide a defence for their words within their own literature by using derogatory phrases and questioning the intelligence of anyone who would question their methods. It is a very interesting piece of cognitive conditioning and very sad that people are manipulated by it.